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retep
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: I love this Reply with quote

Nice blog entry I found:


If a first-time visitor were to come to the site and read the quickie Manny Ramirez thread, they might think, boy, what a bunch of bitter, craven Giants fans. That's only somewhat true. There's a part of us that's laughing at the misfortune of others, and it's just a little repugnant. Just a little. I'm not too worried about it.

But the real happiness when someone like Manny Ramirez gets pinched comes from this: When Barry Bonds was the biggest name in the steroid scandal, no one really understood why Giants fans were still cheering. Few understood why some Giants fans were adept at making such tortured arguments for Bonds's possible innocence.

With every one of these stories, there's just a little bit of "see! see!" attached. Yankees fans kind of get it. Now Dodgers fans kind of get it with Manny Ramirez suspended. Some people will never get it. Like, say,the guy in the Caminiti jersey giving Bonds an earful in San Diego, or the guy in the "'89 World Champs"-shirt complaining about the sanctity of the game. The Logic Fairy didn't have time to stop by and leave something under the pillow of those folks. Their loss.

That's why I want the stars to tumble. I want Ichiro! to be found in a dingy Ottawa HGH den. I want Dustin Pedroia to be arrested for munching on a greenie sandwich. I want every team's most popular player to go down. Then, maybe, people will say, hey, human nature makes people break rules in order to succeed, or make money, or live up to the expectations of their daddy, or impress Samantha Scootbottom from the second grade, or whatever. Maybe there isn't something with a specific region of the country, or one or two players. Maybe there's something wrong with humanity.

I don't have a solution for that last part. I'm just a bitter, craven human, myself. But I still feel comfortable flipping off the finger-waggers, and I still feel mostly okay with laughing at the misfortune of others in this instance


Last edited by retep on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheLegend
Babe Ruth


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
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Location: Oakland, duh.

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as i'm sure you know by now, the whole manny situation is a load of crock, but independent of that, people (players and fans) who's idea of fair is "if they're cheating, i should cheat too" kinda make me wanna vomit.
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retep
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
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Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the point is less wanting players to cheat to make it fair, but wanting fans of other teams to share in the disappointment. Most fans have reacted to individual players rather than a systemic problem.
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Blancito21
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's a load of crock about the Manny situation?
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TheLegend
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in retrospect, my information may not be 100% accurate, but I heard he tested positive for a steroid in ED medication
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retep
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheLegend wrote:
in retrospect, my information may not be 100% accurate, but I heard he tested positive for a steroid in ED medication


yeah, it's not really not a baseball-related performance enhancer.

However, it's used to treat those who had used steroids. That said, this doesn't account for 5 years of clean tests (or how many ever years...)
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Blancito21
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clean tests are easy when you are on HGH. The amount of steroid needed is undetectable. The body does not elevate levels of epi-testosterone so their is no indication of steroid use. People are cheating and there is no way to catch them.
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retep
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For sure, but that could be anyone. What manny is up to doesn't show that much, does it?

Not like I rally care :-p
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Victor
Rookie


Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only speak for myself and for the Dodgers fans that I associate with, but I disagree wholeheartedly. From what I can see, we Dodgers fans aren't defending Manny...we're pissed off at him. He fucked up. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to make a case for Manny's innocence and neither are any of my Dodger-loving friends. I think that anyone who attempts to do such a thing is being intellectually irresponsible.

Which brings me to Giants fans Wink . I think this post is just an attempt to validate the notion that defending Bonds wasn't a ridiculous exercise in futility. If this post makes you all feel better, then congratulations; but I assure you that Dodgers fans see little parallel between the way we are handling the Manny situation and the way Giants fans ludicrously defended Bonds in the face of undeniable guilt.
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retep
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would have been different if Manny had been on the team for 10+ years. Also, Manny is being treated far more fairly than bonds ever was by the media, fans, etc.

Plus, Manny did shit after the ban, which is dumb. :-p
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Southpaw Slim
Kenesaw Mountain Landis


Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor wrote:
I can only speak for myself and for the Dodgers fans that I associate with, but I disagree wholeheartedly. From what I can see, we Dodgers fans aren't defending Manny...we're pissed off at him. He fucked up. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to make a case for Manny's innocence and neither are any of my Dodger-loving friends. I think that anyone who attempts to do such a thing is being intellectually irresponsible.

Which brings me to Giants fans Wink . I think this post is just an attempt to validate the notion that defending Bonds wasn't a ridiculous exercise in futility. If this post makes you all feel better, then congratulations; but I assure you that Dodgers fans see little parallel between the way we are handling the Manny situation and the way Giants fans ludicrously defended Bonds in the face of undeniable guilt.


I have to admit, this is the most valid point on this thread so far.
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retep
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southpaw Slim wrote:
Victor wrote:
I can only speak for myself and for the Dodgers fans that I associate with, but I disagree wholeheartedly. From what I can see, we Dodgers fans aren't defending Manny...we're pissed off at him. He fucked up. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to make a case for Manny's innocence and neither are any of my Dodger-loving friends. I think that anyone who attempts to do such a thing is being intellectually irresponsible.

Which brings me to Giants fans Wink . I think this post is just an attempt to validate the notion that defending Bonds wasn't a ridiculous exercise in futility. If this post makes you all feel better, then congratulations; but I assure you that Dodgers fans see little parallel between the way we are handling the Manny situation and the way Giants fans ludicrously defended Bonds in the face of undeniable guilt.


I have to admit, this is the most valid point on this thread so far.


Look, I agree with this too. But you (both) have to admit that the target was painted on Bond's back as if he was the lone and soul user in the game. I think that Bonds was made in to a major scapegoat and Giants fans had legitimate feeling that their fun in watching a baseball game was in many ways taken away.

And no one-NO ONE-is talking about the difference between Bonds’ treatment and other uses who have since been revealed. So far, none of these players—including A-Rod, Manny, Clemens, Pettitte—have had a syringe thrown at them or a sports writer suggest their ‘lynching.’ There is no where close to the level of jeering.

I mean, they treated Bonds worse than they treated Clemens when he was exposed as a statitory rapists!

The line about the “guy in the "'89 World Champs"-shirt complaining about the sanctity of the game” was a particular curiosity to me for years, because of the sheer number of A’s fans who used Bonds as a point of attack in the mild Bay Area Rivalry.

So, I see what Victor is saying. But I think that baseball has a long way to go in realizing how the Bonds situation was completely mishandled and exploited to delay responding to the problem.
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Southpaw Slim
Kenesaw Mountain Landis


Joined: 30 Jan 2005
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Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, Bonds was also a statutory rapist? I thought only Lem Hall did that.
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retep
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southpaw Slim wrote:
Wait, Bonds was also a statutory rapist? I thought only Lem Hall did that.


No, Clemens was.
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Southpaw Slim
Kenesaw Mountain Landis


Joined: 30 Jan 2005
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Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter... can I at least get one English syntax joke by you without a serious rebuttal?
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