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what to do about steals?

 
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What should we do about steals?
nothing
66%
 66%  [ 2 ]
per player limit
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
per inning limit
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
per player limit and per inning limit
33%
 33%  [ 1 ]
something else (please explain)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 3

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TheLegend
Babe Ruth


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 719
Location: Oakland, duh.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: what to do about steals? Reply with quote

I think the quality of our live games have gone way up over the years, I feel like we have a collection of pitchers who can throw strikes, and as a group we're hitting the ball better as well.

The one aspect of our live games that I feel is still well out-of-sync with what we would expect from a "real" baseball game is the frequency and ease at which we are stealing bases, and I was wondering what everyone thought about that.

nothing
Even though our pitchers and catchers aren't doing a great job now, there's only one way to get better and that's through practice. If we artificially limit players' abilities to steal bases, then our pitchers and catchers won't get the experience they need to learn to prevent people from stealing bases

per player limit
By limiting the number of steals each player can get, we will prevent any individual from making the game ridiculous by stealing too many bases. This also turns stealing a base into more of a dagger than a club (i.e. more strategic) since, as an individual, you may have an incentive to "save" your stolen bases for late game / meaningful situations.

per inning limit
pretty straight forward. Limit the number of stolen bases a team can have in any given inning.

both
Have a limit for steals per person and steals per inning.



Don't like any of these ideas? Have a better one? please share!
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retep
Player/Manager


Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was really thinking that something would be good because I agree with the problems, but here were my dilemmas:

Why force a player to stop their game? If someone can steal, then maybe they wanna work for a walk or slap a single. Take away (or limit) the steal and you loose complexity.

And the per-inning really does not work, because what if your team has sucked all day, and then you get a rally going?

Plus, in both cases someone needs to keep count (and as we saw yesterday, we have a hard enough time with strikes and outs).


I do think that we could not allow advancements on passed balls. Few people really like to catch, and ball blocking is a painful and challenging art. I see no need for advancements on passed balls with the combined need for steals and plethora of walks.


The only thing that might work is to keep a maximum lead, except slower players need that lead to get a good jump on a batted ball.


Note: I voted "nothing," but that was before I though of the passed-balls rule.
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TheLegend
Babe Ruth


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 719
Location: Oakland, duh.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think preventing players from advancing on passed balls because "people don't like to catch" is a step in the wrong direction. I would much rather give catchers more incentive to be active than give them less, to (at the very least) keep the games moving. I think the problem with wild pitches/passed and the problem with steals should be kept seperate. IMO, the only solution to the wp/pb problem is practice practice practice




i guess that's three solutions.
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TheLegend
Babe Ruth


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 719
Location: Oakland, duh.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also:

loose= what you tie becomes after work

lose= what you do when you play against Kenyatte
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tallguy
Cy Young


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Wilsonville, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, Ken, but I think you're going to have to back up that claim with some stats.

I'm guessing that, considering the large number of games for which there is a record, your team lost 50% of them.

+/- 5 at best.

Gauntlet thrown!
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TheLegend
Babe Ruth


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
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Location: Oakland, duh.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damn you and your crazy british math! :shakes fist:
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retep
Player/Manager


Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, please pay no attention to typos made while rushing comments at work!

Anyway, I don't think that these are separate problems because we're talking about the ease of advancing a base. I agree with your point, however, about how we don't want to make catchers more lazy.

But my comment about people not liking catching had to do with the talent pool. Many people like to play other positions, and so the talent pool is much greater.
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Baseball=Life
Baseball Deity


Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 1031
Location: SF, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I applaud anyone considering taking official action to reign in the rampant steals at live games.
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Baseball=Life
Baseball Deity


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Location: SF, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, does anyone remember the live game that ended with me throwing out someone trying to steal a base? Good times.
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Southpaw Slim
Kenesaw Mountain Landis


Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Is it sidestep or sashay? Reply with quote

I'm glad you mentioned that moment, Scott. The very first thing I thought when I saw the title of this poll (having caught more than a couple of games) was, "Isn't this overlooking the true issue?" What I mean by that is this:

1) Anything that encourages us to limit ourselves and our natural abilities / intelligent decisions is against the spirit of the live games. We play by MLB rules for a reason.

2) Steals have not been the catcher's fault as much as the pitcher's. If you're on the mound, you need to keep in mind who you have on base, and -- God forbid -- actually have to throw over a couple of times to keep the runner honest. (Scott knows what I'm talking about.) Some of us may have to figure out a way to shorten our delivery. I've found the slidestep to be successful, but that's what works for me. Everyone has their own method, or should develop one if they don't.

3) Passed balls are a mistake of preparation/hesitation. We should not encourage our catchers to be spineless. Get in front of the damned ball and keep it from hitting the backstop. If you can't then it should be a wild pitch, which is also the pitcher's fault.

4) STOP THROWING THE BALL AWAY!!!!!! I can't stress this enough. I don't have the exact statistics on it since they aren't tracked, but I stand by my conviction that the catcher has thrown the ball into left field with a runner on third more than once (on average) every live game we've played this year. If you're worried about the runners taking off, don't let them provoke you into making stupid decisions. I know that a runner scored in the last live game with two outs and two strikes on the batter because the catcher thought he could get him sleeping at third base. The double steal also kills. If there's a runner on third, just keep the ball unless you know you can beat the steal of second base. For the infielder backing up the throw to second base, remind your teammate of his responsibility to throw back home immediately after applying the tag. And if you missed it the first time, I'll say it again.

5) STOP THROWING THE BALL AWAY!!!!!! To be more specific, stop letting the ball get thrown away. If you're playing first base, be prepared for a throw over from the pitcher at any time. Be prepared for the catcher to try to snap a throw in a low-risk situation. If you're in the outfield, start running in to back up the play as soon as the catcher stands up. Not all of us can be counted on to retrieve a throw from the plate. Know your team. If you don't trust your infielders' gloves, then do something about it besides complaining after the fact. Let's see some pre-emptive action out there. It isn't like we get a ton of plays in the outfield anyway. Stay loose, stay ready, and stay focused. The errant throw I mentioned in my last point could have easily been an out at the plate if the left fielder was ready and focused on the catcher. He didn't have to run far to get to the ball after it got past third base. Two more steps closer and it would have been an easy decision to get the out at home.

Remember, we play live games to test our abilities. If they don't live up to our own standards, it's up to us personally to improve. It's ultimate cowardice to rely on regulations to hide our weaknesses. I always try to split catchers, pitchers, and fast runners evenly when making teams, with catchers as top priority. I try to get as many innings behind the plate as I comfortably can unless we have a more qualified catcher on the team (i.e. Steve or Jesse) because I want to improve myself by getting the experience. Catching is FUN! You get to take an active role in the game. It makes you think about every game situation.

We're playing for the experience and to improve ourselves. Let's not take a step backward by setting limits. It took us a while to get our live games past the "two-man team" (strikeouts and walks only) and now that the rest of the team is getting involved, we're seeing where we have to improve next. We didn't set a strikeout limit when nobody could get a hit, and we've become better because of it. Now that people are legitimately getting on base, the same two men from before have more responsibility. We shouldn't set a steal limit because our pitchers and catchers have trouble keeping runners back. Let's learn. Let's improve. Let's play ball!
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