Oakland Park Baseball Forum Index Oakland Park Baseball
Show up every Sunday at 10:30 in parks in and around Oakland!
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

"See ya, Cy: The time has come to honor Satchel Paige&a

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Oakland Park Baseball Forum Index -> MLB
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Should the Cy Young Award be renamed for Satchel Paige?
 33%  [ 2 ]
 66%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 6

Author Message

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: "See ya, Cy: The time has come to honor Satchel Paige&a Reply with quote

A nice article I saw and wanted to share. What do you think?

The time has come to honor Satchel Paige

By Gordon Edes, Yahoo! Sports Jun 19, 8:32 pm EDT

It’s time to retire Cy Young. I’m all for tradition, but baseball has more important people to remember than a man who began his career in the horse-and-buggy age. He’s had his name on the award for the game’s best pitcher for over half a century, plenty long to honor his place in the game. See ya, Cy.

Let’s rename the award after a man who won more games than Young, struck out more batters than Nolan Ryan, pitched in at least twice as many games as anyone else, and had a persona that rivaled Babe Ruth’s.

The name is Leroy “Satchel” Paige, and it deserves to be etched on a trophy that would guarantee he will not be forgotten.

Why bring this up now? For two reasons. On Saturday in Cincinnati, baseball will stage its Civil Rights Game, an event created three years ago to draw attention to the game’s racial legacy, which pre-1947 meant players of color were excluded from wearing a big-league uniform.

Jackie Robinson changed all that when he integrated the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947, but as courageous as he was, the story of race and baseball should not begin and end with Robinson. MLB has taken great strides in making sure Robinson is remembered, by retiring his No. 42 in all big league clubs, holding a day in his honor and naming the Rookie of the Year Award after him.

But just as the civil rights movement did not originate with Martin Luther King Jr., so too did others pave the way for Robinson’s historic debut. And at the top of that list is Satchel Paige, the great Negro Leaguer who may have done more than anyone else – when given the chance in barnstorming tours against white teams, winter ball in Latin America and in mixed games in California and North Dakota – to prove that the game suffered for not being colorblind.

“If Jackie Robinson was the father of equal opportunity in baseball, surely Satchel Paige was the grandfather,” writes Larry Tye, author of the new biography, “Satchel: The Life and Times of an American Legend.”

Reading Tye’s exhaustively researched biography of Paige’s incomparable career, which over the arc of 40 years arguably made him the most famous African-American of his time, also served as impetus for my nominating Paige to supplant Young on such an important piece of baseball hardware.

Paige, as Tye notes, began his career when Calvin Coolidge was in the White House and ended it when Lyndon Johnson was president.

“If Randy Johnson(notes) was a force of nature when he signed on with the 2009 San Francisco Giants at age 45, and Nolan Ryan a medical marvel still pitching in the pros at 46, what are we to make of Satchel suiting up for three innings with the Kansas City A’s at 59?” Tye writes. “His durability was more astounding considering that, for most of his career, he twirled nearly every day on unmanicured fields, without the doctors, trainers and other pampering enjoyed by Johnson, Ryan and other major league pitchers.”

Sure, Paige’s appearance for Charlie Finley’s A’s at 59 was a promotional stunt, Paige pitching in 1965 on what Finley billed as Satchel Paige Appreciation Night in Kansas City, which became the pitcher’s adopted home after starring many years for the Negro League Monarchs. Yet Paige needed just 28 pitches to record nine outs and allowed just one hit. “He was throwing 86 to 88 mph with excellent control and location,” remembers Bill Monbouquette, the Red Sox pitcher who opposed Paige that night and was Paige’s final strikeout victim.

Paige had established his greatness long before Finley put a rocking chair in the A’s bullpen. Bill Veeck, the Cleveland Indians owner who signed Paige to a big league contract on July 7, 1948, the pitcher’s 42nd birthday, was witness to Paige’s 13-inning 1-0 win over Dizzy Dean in California 14 years earlier. That remained Veeck’s benchmark for pitching perfection, Tye wrote.

And as a larger than life character, whose sayings made it into “Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations” (“Don’t look back. Something might be gaining on you.”), Paige rivaled Ruth for his hold on the public imagination.

“He may have embellished 20 percent of what he did,” Tye said, “but 80 percent of the core is true. Why threaten that 80 percent by embellishing anything. Because Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, they had the press there to record everything they did and fan their legends. Satchel realized he had to do it himself.

“You can compare him to the Babe, everything from having gone to reform school, to their oversized appetites for food, women, attention. But the difference is Babe’s story played out on Broadway. Satchel was in Outer Mongolia.”

Had baseball moved more quickly, or if Paige had been younger and less free-spirited, he could have been the barrier-breaker, not Robinson. The pain of being passed over never left him.

“Satchel understood instinctively the moment that Jackie was promoted,” Tye said this week, “that history would remember only one name.”

Paige was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1971, the first Negro Leaguer to be so honored, and his statue can be found in Cooperstown as well. But his greatness as a pitcher, and legacy as the man who may have done the most to facilitate Jackie Robinson’s great leap forward, deserve to be remembered in more than just a museum. It’s time to start handing out the Satchel Paige Trophy, awarded annually to the best pitchers in each league.

“Satchel would have loved it,” Tye said when I ran the idea past him. “What a poignant way to recognize not just his skills and durability, but his role in integrating America’s pastime.

“As an ancient Negro Leaguer said, ‘Jackie opened the door, but Satchel inserted the key.’ ”


Short memories: Baseball has enlisted a roster of heavy hitters for the Civil Rights Game, which for the first time is being played as a regular-season game after being an exhibition in Memphis, Tenn., the last two years. Former President Bill Clinton, Muhammad Ali, Hank Aaron, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bob Gibson and Bill Cosby are the headliners at an awards luncheon before the game, with Ali, Aaron and Cosby also taking part in pregame ceremonies at Great American Ball Park. Gospel star BeBe Winans will sing the national anthem and Frank Robinson will throw out the ceremonial first pitch in the city in which he began his Hall of Fame career, and in the same state where he became the game’s first African-American manager, in Cleveland in 1975.

Whether the event succeeds as a fixture on the baseball calendar remains to be seen, but Robinson this week offered evidence of why it is important.

“When I was managing in 2005,” said Robinson, who was then with the Washington Nationals, “one of my players asked me if I’d ever played the game.”

Robinson, of course, belongs in any debate of the best ever to play the game. He also is among a handful of players who can remember firsthand the indignities of Jim Crow, a system of segregation all but unknown to the iPod generation.

“That bothers me deeply,” Robinson said, “that kids don’t have any interest in history, how things were and how it got to be where they have it as good now. I came up at a time when African-American players passed on their knowledge, and talked about their trials and tribulations.”

Robinson grew up in Oakland, Calif., a comparatively racially tolerant city, so he was unprepared for the prejudice he encountered playing for minor league teams in Utah, South Carolina and Oklahoma after signing with the Reds in 1953. “I was in Utah, and went to a movie house,” he said. “I was a big movies buff. The woman wouldn’t sell me a ticket. ‘We don’t serve your kind,’ she said. I said, ‘What kind is that?’ ”

He faced much worse while playing in the Deep South. “We’d go from Columbus, Ga., to Montgomery, Ala., stop at a diner, and stay on the bus while they brought out cold sandwiches,” he said. “We’d get to Montgomery, the white players would get off at the hotel, and cabs would take us to the African-American community, where we’d stay in the YMCA or private homes.”

Robinson said the prejudice he encountered only reinforced his determination to make it to the big leagues.

“What Jackie went through and I went through wasn’t even close,” Robinson said. “I don’t know how he did it. That’s why Branch Rickey chose him. I don’t know how anybody took what he did.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Babe Ruth

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 719
Location: Oakland, duh.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not to make light of what Jackie and Satchel did, and I personally do appreciate the fact that 5-year-old me actually had the opportunity to dream of playing big league ball... but this is a far stretch from the EBONY award for best pitcher- this is the award for the most successful pitcher in major league baseball (which, quite importantly to this particular debate, is not the same as the best pitcher in the world). Assuming (as I do, many others don't) that wins is the ultimate measure of a pitchers success, it's hard to argue that this award really needs to be named after another major leaguer.

Like I said, I don't mean to downplay anything that Satchel did, or the fact that he deserves to be memorialized, I just don't this would be the appropriate way to do it. Having Jackie Robinson on the ROTY Award makes sense, as his impact as a rookie had a particularly memorable effect on the culture of baseball (and the world), but in all honesty, as a major leaguer (again- relevant to this conversation), Paige didn't deserve to have an award named after him.
Living to Win! Click this link! Read my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Perennial All-Star

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 273
Location: The 'Town

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's appropriate to take a man's name off of an award and replace it with someone elses UNLESS the former person is somehow undeserving. This creates further divisions among folks as someone will always feel slighted. Honor the Great Satch in another way- he is deserving.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the replies to this so far!

Ken: I follow your logic, but there are a few things. First, if you accept wins as a pitchers most important stats (you do, I don't) then what about losses? Cy Young also had the most of those!

I actually always like innings pitched, because that shows ownership over your games. Cy Young also leads in that category by over 1,300.

The bigger issue is that we don't know how many games Paige won because of the segregation. I understand that people should be honored by what they do in the majors, but the negro leagues have to be an exception. We can divide down their estimated stats to a degree to compensate for substandard environments, a lower talent pool (arguably), and for the games against random minor league or semi-pro teams. But this would only bring Paige's stats down to Cy's level, or there abuts.

Also, by this standard, Jakie Robinson shouldn't be in the hall of fame--his career stats are not terribly impressive. They look kinda like Edgardo Alfonzo's.

Jakie: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=robinja02
Edgardo: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=alfoned01

AntMo: I agree with your problem of taking the award away from someone else. Its the same problem cities face when they want to re name a street for someone more recent, when the whole point of naming something after someone is to keep that memory alive in the public's eye.

However, I still lean toward changing the award's name. There's the span of years he pitched, his aura, and, to me the most importantly fact, the array of pitches and styles he threw. From all I've heard, he could play the role of any type of pitcher. If I needed one guy that I could use in any situation, I'd be him. I'd use Cy when half of my rotation was down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Perennial All-Star

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 245
Location: Over there.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but stripping Cy's name off the award is basically like a slap in the face for someone who had one of the most prolific pitching careers in history.

I'm all for a Satchel Paige award, don't get me wrong, but you shouldn't just rename something that already exists. I'm sure someone could come up with something clever to honor Satchel without disrespecting Cy.

Oh, and as for the Hall of Fame and stats, obviously HoF voters don't look at just numbers when voting in, nor should they (think of the Bash Brothers).
1. I am always right.
2. If I am ever wrong, read rule number 1.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Satchel getting a best starters award or something? Kinda like how there is MVP and then the Hank Arron award for the bets hitter? (Taking out fielding, baserunning, and team impact as opposed to the MVP)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Southpaw Slim
Kenesaw Mountain Landis

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's Jakie?
I intended to write something to remind everybody of my superior prowess.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackie Robinson. Pardon the omitted (and very important) 'c'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Oakland Park Baseball Forum Index -> MLB All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group